737 Max Pilot Forum

The changes have been proven in 96 test flights, the CEO said. Several Boeing 737 Max 8 pilots in U. Just look at the way Airbus hammered 737 sales when the A321 Neo beat the Max to market by a year. His scenario is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a month ago by an Australian pilot. He said that both pilots and airlines have been notified. It's may not be just the software, but possibly how the software responds to erroneous information:"The concern after the Lion Air crash was that erroneous readings from poorly maintained sensors in the nose of the plane might have fooled the automatic systems into falsely concluding that the plane was traveling sharply upward and in danger of stalling. During the early development of the 737 Max, the pilot, Ray Craig, a silver-haired retired Navy airman, was trying out high-speed situations on a flight simulator, like maneuvers to avoid an obstacle or to escape a powerful vortex from another plane. In the aftermath of that crash, at least two U. To date a lot of American pilots have come from a military aviation background, although that number (percentage) is coming down. What Boeing did along with the system of the FAA is shameful and just horrible. It was not his fault. They didn't include this info in the 737 max pilot training. The big 3-storey-high ones on hydraulics. He was joined by over 400 fellow pilots, trained to fly the fourth-generation narrow-body 737 MAX aircraft. 737 max changed the cockpit to add an automatic trim adjustment that could crash the plane without building in proper redundant operation or pilot warning as standard (indicator light and AOA. Instead it flies the plane straight into the ground!. The pilot who flew the Ethiopian airlines Boeing 737 MAX which crashed was reportedly untrained with the simulator, as claimed by his colleague. The Roots of Boeing’s 737 Max Crisis: A Regulator Relaxes Its Oversight - The New York Times Exerpt: Under the impression the system was insignificant, officials didn’t require Boeing to tell pilots about MCAS. The Federal Aviation Administration says new evidence from the Ethiopian Airlines crash site coupled with its own data gathering led it to order the grounding of Boeing 737 Max planes. Sullenberger's experience in a 737 MAX simulator made him see how pilots ran out of time Washington (CNN)The pilot who orchestrated the dramatic plane landing in the Hudson River 10 years ago told a congressional panel Wednesday that he can see how crews would have struggled during the recent Boeing 737 MAX crashes after he spent time in a simulator running recreations of the doomed flights. Southwest Ailines is a big user of the MAX and have more on order. Air Canada bet on the Boeing 737 Max to refresh its fleet and reduce its operating costs. The 737-8 Max doesn't exactly have a very good safety record as a new plane now. Justice Department's criminal. 38bn loss from operations in its latest quarterly financial results following well-publicised woes over the 737 Max crashes and software failure. The appropriate action was a "stabilizer trim cutout" and then fly the aircraft manually back to the airport with one hand on the controls the other on the trim wheel. A Boeing-led review of a stall-prevention system suspected in the deadly crashes of two of the company’s new 737 Max jetliners has detected an additional software problem that the FAA has. Pilots repeatedly voiced safety concerns about the Boeing 737 Max 8 to federal authorities, with one captain calling the flight manual "inadequate and almost criminally insufficient" several months before Sunday's Ethiopian Air crash that killed 157 people, an investigation by The Dallas Morning News found. The plane has been grounded for months, after Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines flight 302 both crashed, killing all 346 people aboard the. That means odds are that 1 in every 177 MAX flying will crash. There are very knowledgeable users in the AVSIM Community willing and able to answer the most basic of questions. Keith, I’ve been puzzled by the Stab Trim Cutout switch changes for the 737-MAX and also the mention of an Override switch, which I think you may be referring to on the column. Most pilots fly 100 hours a month! You're right, I probably should have said mostly on jets. Doomed 737 MAX's pilots apparently followed Boeing's emergency directions and he is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a. I forget the max seats available on the Max 10 (I think in the 200's +) and we all know SWA would load every seat they possibly can. Your typical American pilot c. The 737 MAX pilots were aghast. Welcome to Crain's Forum multiplying the problems created by the flaw in the 737 Max's software, according to pilots who reviewed a preliminary report issued Thursday by Ethiopia's. It could be something to do with that initial omnishambles with the 787's batteries and in-flight fires and in any case, shows that the Boeing's, uh blind eye oversights with the 737 MAX aren't exactly the first time in recent memory. I'm told by an A320 pilot that Boeing only supply the 737 Max with one system to 'check' the AP is functioning correctly whereas standard fit on all Airbus aircraft is three independent systems. After Lion air, there should not have been a pilot on the planet that was unaware of it, the characteristics of it and how to disable it. Two fatal crashes of Boeing 737 Max airplanes within five months took the lives of 346 people and grounded the fleet. It only took 3 years for two 737 MAX planes to go down. Everything about Lion Air screams of lack of training in the new Max. " This is the method by which pilots are supposed to respond to erroneous activation of the MCAS, which is the software that activated prior to two Boeing 737 MAX crashes. MONTREAL (Reuters) - Global regulators will meet in Montreal next week to review pilot licensing requirements, the U. It felt real. United Airlines Pilot Pay and Benefits. The 737 MAX is the newest of Boeing's most popular airliner featuring more fuel efficient engines and redesigned wings. Muilenburg did not refer to the reports of the Justice Department probe, but stressed Boeing is taking actions to ensure its 737 Max jets are safe, including a software update and offer related pilot training for the 737 Max to “address concerns” that arose in the aftermath of October’s Lion Air crash. A recording has emerged of a meeting between Boeing and AA pilots following the wake of the crash of Lion Air Flight 610. The pilot's inability, for whatever reason, to action the correct checklist is the reason why they weren't able to handle the emergency and land safely. Federal Aviation Administration said on Thursday it would invite Boeing 737 Max pilots from across the world to participate in simulator tests as part of the process to recertify the aircraft for flight following two fatal crashes. 1%) will ask Boeing (BA +0. Farnborough -- Boeing is to offer a higher capacity variant of the 737-8, a member of the new MAX family, to further improve seat-mile operating economics and increase competitiveness against the Airbus A320neo. Yeah, got this from a co-worker who is former navy. While it's too early to know if the causes of these crashes are related, there are many initial similarities, and it does seem a real possibility that something is wrong with 737 Max aircraft. Over 400 pilots have joined a class-action lawsuit against Boeing, accusing the company of an “unprecedented cover-up” of “known design flaws” on the company’s top-selling 737 MAX, according to the Australian Broadcasting Company. The American Airlines pilots union demanded to know why Boeing didn't inform it about a flight control system that's now. It is not in the AA 737 Flight Manual Part 2, nor is there a description in the Boeing FCOM (flight crew operations manual)," says the letter from the pilots' union safety committee. Following the sessions, “we went back to the classroom and said, ‘Here are the things that concern us most when we look at the scenario of the two accidents we just experienced,’” Sinnett says. ’s 737 MAX jetliners back in the air have been delayed in part by concerns about whether the average pilot has enough physical strength to turn a manual crank in extreme emergencies. He refers to the lack of training- training that Boeing said would not be needed to upgrade a 737 pilot to the Max. Boeing is altering software on the plane that had malfunctioned in both accidents, pushing each plane's nose down without pilot input. 737 max changed the cockpit to add an automatic trim adjustment that could crash the plane without building in proper redundant operation or pilot warning as standard (indicator light and AOA. The consensus I'm hearing among professional aviators is that the MCAS problem is easy to deal with if the pilots are properly trained. A trade group representing hundreds of airlines is renewing its push for additional pilot training and coordination among global aviation regulators to ensure that the Boeing 737 Max is safe. I am currently tryinng the TSS 717-200 sound to see if that might fit. It is not taught at his airline. Several Boeing 737 Max 8 pilots in U. We are committed to maintaining a lively but civil forum for discussion. His scenario is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a month ago by an Australian pilot. The consensus I'm hearing among professional aviators is that the MCAS problem is easy to deal with if the pilots are properly trained. " My flying buddy says he will not fly on any Boeing 737-Max in the future, because he will not trust Boeing's software fix or the ability of a pilot to counteract in an emergency situation whatever software fix Boeing cobbles together. Boeing 737 MAX. Someone commented on how pilots aren't supposed to fly ""by the seatbelt of their pants" - utter baloney in the US. The word "kludge" keeps coming up when pilots and engineers discuss Boeing's 737 Max. Look up the Paris air show, compare Airbus to Boeing orders. Tech Industry With no timetable on when 737 Max will fly again, Boeing may suspend production. 1 describes what is required for differences training on a separate variant of an aircraft type based on what “level” of differences the FAA deems the new variant to have. I had the joy of working for an aviation company as an IT guy, and poking my nose into every area of their operations. Totally agree, I'm sure Boeing will send their investigation team to Ethiopia to help out figure out what went wrong. Federal Aviation Administration said on Thursday it would invite Boeing 737 MAX pilots from across the world to participate in simulator tests as part of the. He says he believes U. Covering systems, external items, history, quiz, pilots notes, airtesting, accident reports & more. No sim training for the Max when introduced. TheAirlinePilots. As pilots we really don’t need to know why the trim is running away, but we must know, and practice, how to disable it. Le 28/04/2019 à 18h03 / message No. Save on printer ink and toner to keep your office efficient and productive. Pilot feedback to the proposed software changes to the Boeing 737 MAX Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) flight-control law is positive, says Boeing. The theory suspected by U. OT: Boeing 737 MAX General Discussion. damn, that is quite the explanation from Aboulafia. Boeing plans autopilot software update after two 737 MAX crashes. A recording has emerged of a meeting between Boeing and AA pilots following the wake of the crash of Lion Air Flight 610. The pilot who flew the Ethiopian airlines Boeing 737 MAX which crashed was reportedly untrained with the simulator, as claimed by his colleague. This was a 4-month old 737 Max 8, and Ethiopian has a very good reputation for safety. A Boeing 737 MAX airplane is stored on an employee parking lot adjacent to Boeing Field, on June 27, 2019 in Seattle, Washington. It sounds like a lot of 737 pilots are not sure about it’s full functionality also. Several airline pilots disagree. 370 pages, over 500 photographs. Boeing's 737 MAX Flight Crew Operations Manual (FCOM) already outlines an existing procedure to safely handle the unlikely event of erroneous data coming from an angle of attack (AOA) sensor. They have to fix the software and test it and update pilot. To avoid billions of dollars of law suits Boeing has no choice but to pretend the 737 MAX was always safe and it was just a small oversight (cough, cough) and an unusual confluence of circumstances from poorly trained brown pilots (sarcasm on obviously) that triggered a chain of unforseeable events that resulted in tragedy. Several Pilots repeatedly warned federal authorities of safety concerns over the now-grounded Boeing 737 Max 8 for months leading up to the second deadly disaster involving the plane, according to an investigation by the Dallas Morning News. As the New York Times reported, "For many new airplane models, pilots train for hours on giant, multimillion-dollar machines, on-the-ground versions of cockpits that mimic the flying experience and teach them new features" while the experienced 737 MAX pilots were allowed light refresher courses that you could do on an iPad. Forums off topic a brand new Boeing 737 Max 8. The pilot who shared the scenario said he learned the roller coaster procedure from excerpts of a 737-200 manual posted in an online pilot forum in the wake of the MAX accidents. The claimed "multiple attempts" to disengage MCAS is misleading. Despite what your friend says about possible fixes, there is a loss of consumer confidence in this. All 189 passengers and crew members were killed instantly. The system wasn’t even mentioned in the MAX’s flight manual. Bird strike reportedly suspected of having role in deadly Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 Max crash. "Normal" means the pilot can control the plane. It seems that the 737 MAX is even more dangerous due to its 737 NG legacy. Doomed 737 MAX's pilots apparently followed Boeing's emergency directions and he is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a. That would drive OCD Pauly crazy. Boeing’s recommended remedy for the 737 Max includes a major revamp of the MCAS platform. WASHINGTON - Two U. I think the flight manual, software and interfaces could have been better from the start. LE BOURGET, France—Efforts to get Boeing Co. The WoodenBoat Forum is sponsored scrap the 737-MAX and develop either a new airplane or an updated 757. 's 737 MAX jet is now putting a fresh strain on its finances. On the other hand, this month, CEO Dennis Muilenburg asked the board “to establish a committee to review our company-wide policies and processes for the design and development of the airplanes we build,” and somehow, as Ron Epstein noted, they. The 737 MAX family is designed to offer the greatest flexibility, reliability and efficiency in the single-aisle market. The issue. After demonstrations, pilots believe the potential for further flight-control problems from the system are a “nonissue,” the airframer says. The Federal Aviation Administration says new evidence from the Ethiopian Airlines crash site coupled with its own data gathering led it to order the grounding of Boeing 737 Max planes. There’s a disturbing murmur amid the vigorous discussion of two crashes of Boeing 737 Max jets during the last five months: Maybe some pilots of foreign airlines aren’t as qualified to fly. FAA Has No Timeline for Lifting Grounding of Boeing’s 737 Max. Competent airlines that have robust pilot training programs (Southwest, United, American) have flown tens of thousands of flights with the 737 MAX 8 with not a single problem. He said it won't be easy to restore trust in aviation safety. The American Airlines pilots union demanded to know why Boeing didn't inform it about a flight control system that's now. Sullenberger's experience in a 737 MAX simulator made him see how pilots ran out of time Washington (CNN)The pilot who orchestrated the dramatic plane landing in the Hudson River 10 years ago told a congressional panel Wednesday that he can see how crews would have struggled during the recent Boeing 737 MAX crashes after he spent time in a simulator running recreations of the doomed flights. We use cookies to provide the best experience on our site. Icelandair made the announcement that it would be terminating 45 of its 737 MAX pilots during a training session, according to Aviation24. Pilot Report: Boeing 737 vs. President Trump just said both the Boeing 737 Max 8 and 737 Max 9 models will be "grounded upon landing" at their destinations. in a building across from Seattle's Boeing Field, in flight test groups supporting the MAX. Once the hour-long forum was finished, King. We remain confident that, once certified by the FAA, the enhancements will support the safe operation of the MAX. Good discussion on PPrune about it. But Tui's fleet of five are still being flown. Investigators believe the plane’s sensors or its computers had bad data, suggesting the plane was stalling when it was not, but many veteran pilots say they didn’t know the 737 MAX computers. He was joined by over 400 fellow pilots, trained to fly the fourth-generation narrow-body 737 MAX aircraft. Would you take a Boeing 737-800 MAX if your next flight was on this model ???. ’s 737 MAX jetliners back in the air have been delayed in part by concerns about whether the average pilot has enough physical strength to turn a manual crank in extreme emergencies. we were flying on a 737 Max. Additionally, representatives of other Boeing 737 MAX operators, such as Southwest Airlines, were present to meet with Boeing. Just for Fun. CHICAGO/WASHINGTON - The U. “The aircraft returned and landed safely in Orlando. Seems very eerily similar to the Lion Air crash. Another rewrite for 737 Max software as cosmic bit-flipping tests glitch out systems – report. I am aaare many Asian carriers do NOT encourage or promote manual flying though. Paul Njoroge says he believes Boeing should scrap the 737 Max, and he wants the company's top executives to resign and face criminal charges for not grounding the plane after a deadly accident. •The Boeing 737 is the best-selling airliner of all time. I had the joy of working for an aviation company as an IT guy, and poking my nose into every area of their operations. Here's the terrifying reason Boeing's 737 MAX 8 is grounded across the globe Pilots are outraged that Boeing did not properly inform them of a program that can wrench control of an aircraft from. Obviously, people were astonished that all it took was 30 minutes on a iPad to certify a 737 pilot to be qualified to operate a Max 8. More seats, not grounded, and RASM's would increase without adding extra Max 8's. During the early development of the 737 Max, the pilot, Ray Craig, a silver-haired retired Navy airman, was trying out high-speed situations on a flight simulator, like maneuvers to avoid an obstacle or to escape a powerful vortex from another plane. I will not hesitate to ride on the 737 Max models once they come back into service. Boeing 737 Max - what happened - Air Travel Forum. After demonstrations, pilots believe the potential for further flight-control problems from the system are a “nonissue,” the airframer says. Air Canada bet on the Boeing 737 Max to refresh its fleet and reduce its operating costs. None of the 157 people on board a new Ethiopian Airlines plane that crashed on Sunday morning en route to Nairobi from Addis Ababa have survived, the airline said. 0 Forum and Awards; of the Boeing 737 MAX Joint MCAS and strengthening of the ability of pilots to override the system. The pilots of the Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX that crashed last month appear to have followed the emergency procedure laid out by both Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration — cutting off the suspect flight-control system — but could not regain control and avert the plunge that killed all 157 on board. VOA - Economy. The theory suspected by U. The chatter has been that a lot of pilots are really pissed off about this because Boeing changed the way this 737 flies and didn't tell anyone. 348 planes now flying worldwide since the 2017 introduction and two major, 100% fatality hull-loss crashes within a few months to nearly brand new aircraft. (3) MCAS, which is a manual system designed to constantly input some amount of nose down trim to make the 737 MAX feel to the pilot like previous 737 models. The consensus I'm hearing among professional aviators is that the MCAS problem is easy to deal with if the pilots are properly trained. What's happening with the 737 Max 8 is the same thing. I wonder if that might have changed Hofman's opinion. On this note I wanted to get an idea of what was happening to the 737 so I reached out and got this response from a salty captain. As the New York Times reported, "For many new airplane models, pilots train for hours on giant, multimillion-dollar machines, on-the-ground versions of cockpits that mimic the flying experience and teach them new features" while the experienced 737 MAX pilots were allowed light refresher courses that you could do on an iPad. Over time aircraft technology evolves, and the 737 MAX is also supposed to be the most advanced. Not playing the "pilot blame game", but the pilots of the AA crash in Cali, and Asiana in SFO were completely responsible for crashing. Page 16 of 16 - Ethiopian Airlines Crashed - Boeing 737 Max 8 Banned - posted in Lite & EZ: 737-800 does not have MCAS. The company reported its largest-ever quarterly loss of $3. By Tracy Rucinski. Everything about Lion Air screams of lack of training in the new Max. CHICAGO: The U. Pilots For 9/11 Truth are attempting to obtain actual wind tunnel data (and if you had browsed our forum, you would already realize as such). If both Ethiopian Airlines pilots were "high" time, then who would you blame? The issue is Boeing has potentially (and perhaps knowingly) made a defective product and didn't properly notify and train their customers. US regulators said Wednesday Boeing must address a new "potential risk" in the Boeing 737 MAX, further clouding the timeframe for resuming service on the planes after two deadly crashes. Several airline pilots disagree. I suppose they must be running out of space to store completed aircraft and running out of money to keep building them without being able to sell them. The pilots didn't recognize the problem in time and the plane crashed. The FAA met Friday with the three airlines that grounded the Boeing Air Max and their pilot unions, to talk about the plane's safety issues The 737 MAX model has had CBS News political. When the company asked to remove mention of MCAS from the pilot's manual, the agency agreed. 348 planes now flying worldwide since the 2017 introduction and two major, 100% fatality hull-loss crashes within a few months to nearly brand new aircraft. Southwest Airlines continues to monitor information from Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) on the impending 737 MAX software enhancements and training requirements. And at least that's what I've heard, more than only 3 or 5 jet pilots in America wonder if they again can trust a 737 Max. Another Boeing 737 MAX 8 Flight Control Incident Similar to the other 2 incidents just after takeoff the plain gives the pilot a handful and it's the second that crashed killing all onboard. The pilots of the Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX that crashed last month appear to have followed the emergency procedure laid out by both Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration — cutting off the suspect flight-control system — but could not regain control and avert the plunge that killed all 157 on board. The MAX was the fastest-selling aircraft in Boeing history. A trade group representing hundreds of airlines is renewing its push for additional pilot training and coordination among global aviation regulators to ensure that the Boeing 737 Max is safe. Just for Fun. This was a 4-month old 737 Max 8, and Ethiopian has a very good reputation for safety. Doomed 737 MAX's pilots apparently followed Boeing's emergency directions and he is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a. Good discussion on PPrune about it. You said it is always the pilots fault. " My flying buddy says he will not fly on any Boeing 737-Max in the future, because he will not trust Boeing's software fix or the ability of a pilot to counteract in an emergency situation whatever software fix Boeing cobbles together. All three of these functions rely on accurate AoA sensor data, but the functions themselves are separate and are there for different purposes. He said it won't be easy to restore trust in aviation safety. Despite what your friend says about possible fixes, there is a loss of consumer confidence in this. His scenario is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a month ago by an Australian pilot. 157 people were killed on Sunday when Ethiopian Airlines flight ET302 crashed into a field, minutes after the Boeing 737 Max 8 had taken off. In 2012, veteran test pilot Ray Craig testing high-speed situations in a simulator in the early days of 737 MAX development, detected problems with the 737 MAX in certain high-speed cases. Norwegian fired their 737 max pilots as well. The pilots of the Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX that crashed last month appear to have followed the emergency procedure laid out by both Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration — cutting off the suspect flight-control system — but could not regain control and avert the plunge that killed all 157 on board. SO they dropped a pair or pilots with very little training on a new system. The Allied Pilots Association (representing American pilots) says their pilots feel confident in their ability to fly the 737 MAX; American’s 737 MAX aircraft are the only ones equipped with AOA displays, one for each pilot, which they say provides an extra layer of awareness and warning. The 737 MAX is the newest of Boeing's most popular airliner featuring more fuel efficient engines and redesigned wings. It is in the operations manual, but not in the instruction given to pilots to be certified. This is intended to happen if a. •Since 2011, the new 737 MAX has won more than 4,700 orders, making it the fastest-selling airplane in Boeing history. The problem for Boeing, and maybe eventually all. Look up the Paris air show, compare Airbus to Boeing orders. On the 737 max, you have to turn a switch on a panel. Croix Forum. Most pilots fly 100 hours a month! You're right, I probably should have said mostly on jets. Le 28/04/2019 à 18h03 / message No. Boeing 737-800 MAX seems to be having problems with 2 crashes in 5 months, both crashed shortly after take off 1st Crash Lion Air Oct 2018 2nd Crash Ethiopian Airways Mar 2019 (New plane delivered in Nov 2018) RIP to all the deceased. Boeing's 737 MAX Flight Crew Operations Manual (FCOM) already outlines an existing procedure to safely handle the unlikely event of erroneous data coming from an angle of attack (AOA) sensor. In 2012, the chief test pilot for the Max had a problem. According to the deceased's colleague, 29-year-old Yared Getachew, who was the pilot of the Ethiopian Airline Boeing 737 MAX which crashed was untrained. Boeing's solution to this dilemma was the MCAS. aviation regulators have no timeline for returning Boeing Co. Radio Sputnik has discussed China's reported intention to exclude Boeing 737 Max jets from its shopping list with Captain Desmond Ross, an Australian aviation specialist and the Asia Pacific Vice-President of the International Aviation Security Management Association. Two months later, I still have not received any compensation nor have I gotten any answers from Westjet about how and why they put their passengers in such a dangerous aircraft. 737-300 Econ, Max Angle, Max Rate & One Eng Inop Climb TheAirlinePilots. They have to fix the software and test it and update pilot. MCAS is "activated without pilot input" and "commands nose down stabilizer to enhance pitch characteristics during step. The legal action was started by a pilot, identified only as ‘Pilot X’ in court documents, which were seen by the Australian Broadcasting Company. carriers are. carriers are. We use cookies to provide the best experience on our site. IOW ground the pilots until each and every one knows how to kill the new system. 's 737 MAX jetliners back in the air have been delayed in part by concerns about whether the average pilot has enough physical strength to turn a manual crank in extreme emergencies. Both accidents were found to involve software and. The question is, would there be enough demand overall to continue the production of either line? Many of the other airlines flying the 737, also have A320's (and it's variants) in their fleets already. Prior to Engine Start we’ll. Le 28/04/2019 à 18h03 / message No. Pilot feedback to the proposed software changes to the Boeing 737 MAX Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) flight-control law is positive, says Boeing. United Airlines Pilot Pay and Benefits. Inside the Effort to Fix the Troubled Boeing 737 MAX An exclusive look inside a Boeing flight simulator with two American Airlines pilots trying to help correct the software flaw believed to be behind two crashes Scott McCartneyJune 5, 2019 6:10 p. Over time aircraft technology evolves, and the 737 MAX is also supposed to be the most advanced. Ok, i assume the engine also different being “older” version of Max 8 with “bigger” rotary engine that comes with MCAS. Federal Aviation Administration plans to test next month how pilots with around one year of experience flying Boeing 737 jets handle new software on the MAX model, four sources with knowledge of the matter said. While it's too early to know if the causes of these crashes are related, there are many initial similarities, and it does seem a real possibility that something is wrong with 737 Max aircraft. On this note I wanted to get an idea of what was happening to the 737 so I reached out and got this response from a salty captain. Their pilots understand their aircraft because those airlines have robust training programs and those pilots are taught to first and foremost, fly the airplane. “Data from the jetliner that crashed into the Java Sea last month shows the pilots fought to save the plane almost from the moment it took off, as the Boeing 737’s nose was repeatedly forced down, apparently by an automatic system receiving incorrect sensor readings. airlines flying Boeing's 737 MAX weren't trained about a key change to an automatic system that's been linked to the fatal crash of a Lion Air jet last month, according to. Southwest Airlines does not expect its pilots to undergo simulator training as part of a process to return the Boeing 737 Max to service, as the carrier stresses its aviators are well-equipped to handle a problem that has emerged as a common link between two fatal crashes of the aircraft type. The Boeing 737 Technical Guide - Technical guide to the 737 based upon this website. This is intended to happen if a. Someone commented on how pilots aren't supposed to fly ""by the seatbelt of their pants" - utter baloney in the US. Pilots transitioned to 737 Max 8 with self-administered online course In the wake of the fatal crashes, some pilots are demanding additional training on the 737 Max series aircraft, in the form of both ground school and flight simulator time. N) 737 MAX, which has also prompted the low-cost carrier to freeze new pilot hiring. His scenario is backed up by extracts from a 1982 Boeing 737-200 Pilot Training Manual posted to an online pilot forum a month ago by an Australian pilot. Both pilots requested. Maybe from here on out Boeing’s luck will change, and the world will come around to the view that while it may not be perfect, the 737 MAX is good enough. It's very slippery. With the 737 Max, the situation became critical. I don't see why you would need to ground the planes with this simple procedure available to pilots. At least they can keep pilots busy during the lengthy grounding. When the company asked to remove mention of MCAS from the pilot’s manual, the agency agreed. Not because it is a Boeing product (although it is true that Boeing has been cutting corners with safety lately and totally disingenuous after the two recent 737 Max crashes), but because seating. Dennis Muilenburg, chairman and chief executive of Boeing, has said the US plane maker made a mistake in implementing a faulty cockpit warning system on its 737 Max passenger plane, predicting it would take time to rebuild the confidence of customers following two fatal crashes. It is in the operations manual, but not in the instruction given to pilots to be certified. Redesigned with a larger LCD screen, more options, and better controls, we've dialed in the technology that dials in your boat position. He said that both pilots and airlines have been notified. You said it is always the pilots fault. By Tracy Rucinski. The 737 MAX is the newest of Boeing's most popular airliner featuring more fuel efficient engines and redesigned wings. sounds like they shut down the engine to reduce risk of wear or damage while operating outside of safe parameters. Instead it flies the plane straight into the ground!. 370 pages, over 500 photographs. No big deal. In the days after the first crash of Boeing’s 737 Max, engineers at the Federal Aviation Administration came to a troubling realization: They didn’t fully understand the automated system that helped send the plane into a nose-dive, killing everyone on board. Many pilots in the United States have not been fully informed about how to deal with the new features of the Boeing 737 MAX, including its anti-stall system, and learned about the jet on an iPad, the New York Times reports. The 737 Max 8 had two deadly crashes in five months, and authorities are zeroing in on what went wrong. View cookie policy. RollCall - Trump grounds all 737 Max 8 and Max 9 airliners This is the right thing to do in my opinion due to some comments in this article I read: CNN - Pilots complained about the 737 Max in a federal database Seems as if the autopilot or a combination of automated systems would put the plane in a nose down attitude when the autopilot was. Does Boeing have a 737-8 MAX problem?, Aviation, 547 replies Senator Dianne Feinstein calls on FAA to ground Boeing 737 MAX 8, Politics and Other Controversies, 141 replies Trump Announces Grounding of Boeing 737 Max 8 Aircraft, Politics and Other Controversies, 211 replies Boeing 737 MAX, Aviation, 6 replies. Director General Alexandre de Juniac said "we do not expect something before 10 or 12 weeks", although he added a final decision was up to regulators. The plane has been grounded for months, after Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines flight 302 both crashed, killing all 346 people aboard the. You are used to resistance on the handle with the NG but that's not there on the MAX so one tends to pull it too fast. 's grounded 737 Max. The 737 Max 8 had two deadly crashes in five months, and authorities are zeroing in on what went wrong. Sullenberger's experience in a 737 MAX simulator made him see how pilots ran out of time Washington (CNN)The pilot who orchestrated the dramatic plane landing in the Hudson River 10 years ago told a congressional panel Wednesday that he can see how crews would have struggled during the recent Boeing 737 MAX crashes after he spent time in a simulator running recreations of the doomed flights. " This is the method by which pilots are supposed to respond to erroneous activation of the MCAS, which is the software that activated prior to two Boeing 737 MAX crashes. The claimed "multiple attempts" to disengage MCAS is misleading. But, it also gets to a point where you start having different versions of the same plane with enough differences that it becomes a problem. A Boeing 737 MAX 8 airliner lifts off for its first flight on January 29, 2016 in Renton, Washington. That means odds are that 1 in every 177 MAX flying will crash. This is the second crash of a brand-new 737 Max 8 in six months. The aircraft has a thrust rating and centre of gravity well outside the envelope that the airframe was designed for and the 'fix' is an automatic computerised pitch control which the pilots cannot affect or override regardless of the manual or. 1 describes what is required for differences training on a separate variant of an aircraft type based on what “level” of differences the FAA deems the new variant to have. Boeing Co said on March 17 it was finalizing the development of a software upgrade and a revision of pilot training for its 737 MAX, the plane that has suffered two fatal crashes in the last five. There are very knowledgeable users in the AVSIM Community willing and able to answer the most basic of questions. As the New York Times reported, "For many new airplane models, pilots train for hours on giant, multimillion-dollar machines, on-the-ground versions of cockpits that mimic the flying experience and teach them new features" while the experienced 737 MAX pilots were allowed light refresher courses that you could do on an iPad. Despite what your friend says about possible fixes, there is a loss of consumer confidence in this. Unless you hark back to January 2013 when the FAA grounded the entire fleet and other authorities followed suit. Several Boeing 737 Max 8 pilots in U. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. MCAS will now get data from both of the plane’s angle of attack sensors instead of just one. What is the 737 MAX? The Boeing 737 is the most popular commercial plane in the sky, and over 10,000 of them have been produced. This bulletin reiterates existing, well-established procedures for 737 MAX 8 pilots. Boeing is altering software on the plane that had malfunctioned in both accidents, pushing each plane's nose down without pilot input. The theory suspected by U. The pilots of a doomed Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX scoured a handbook as they struggled to understand why the jet was lurching downwards, but ran out of time before it hit the water, three people with knowledge of the cockpit voice recorder contents said. All I heard was the Max's were marketed at being similar enough to the 737-900 that no new training was needed. Why are these jets still flying in the US???. My ‘gut feel’ as an Electronics Engineer tells me that the need for more adequate and intensive pilot training is a strong possibility The can't-miss forum. The MAX would have met all FAA requirements without any software assists, but the designers felt that they could make it a lower workload for a limited skills pilot on takeoff with this assist device. According to The New York Times, when Boeing first rolled out the 737 Max 8, the Federal Aviation Administration determined there were not enough differences between the new model and the prior iteration of 737 to require pilots to go through simulator training — a decision that saved the airlines time and money, and made Boeing's new plane. And with the 'conversion' from some earlier 737 types to 737 max being as simple and CHEAP as possible, little more than a session on an iPad according to one pilot, with no simulator time 'required' being one of Boeing's main selling points, just how many pilots would have trained on a 737 Max specific simulator anyway?. allkpop Forums. Any impression that pilots are being coerced to fly the 737 Max or are otherwise misinformed will only do further damage. Federal Aviation Administration said on Thursday it would invite Boeing 737 Max pilots from across the world to participate in simulator tests as part of the process to recertify the aircraft for flight following two fatal crashes. Federal Aviation Administration plans to test next month how pilots with around one year of experience flying Boeing 737 jets handle new software on the MAX model, four sources with knowledge of the matter said. President Trump just said both the Boeing 737 Max 8 and 737 Max 9 models will be "grounded upon landing" at their destinations. There was no info on the automated nose down in the training for this version of the 737 so when it happens the pilots are left to figure out what is happening and why. We remain confident that, once certified by the FAA, the enhancements will support the safe operation of the MAX. Source: Boeing whistleblowers report 737 Max problems to FAA Among the complaints is a previously unreported issue involving damage to the wiring of the angle of attack sensor by a foreign object, according to the source. Boeing and the FAA are working with the European, Brazilian and Canadian civil aviation authorities. We've been building boats for well over 40 years having earned a reputation for tough and seaworthy boats that can be found all round the world. Two fatal crashes of Boeing 737 Max airplanes within five months took the lives of 346 people and grounded the fleet. The FAA and Boeing say the software upgrade that's due in April will give pilots greater control in case problems emerge with the planes' safety systems. FAA plans to test Boeing MAX software on less-experienced pilots: sources, by The U. CHICAGO/WASHINGTON - The U. According to the deceased's colleague, 29-year-old Yared Getachew, who was the pilot of the Ethiopian Airline Boeing 737 MAX which crashed was untrained. Does Boeing have a 737-8 MAX problem?, Aviation, 547 replies Senator Dianne Feinstein calls on FAA to ground Boeing 737 MAX 8, Politics and Other Controversies, 141 replies Trump Announces Grounding of Boeing 737 Max 8 Aircraft, Politics and Other Controversies, 211 replies Boeing 737 MAX, Aviation, 6 replies. CHICAGO/WASHINGTON — The U. Well, to be fair, while the 737 Max is not a reputation luxury plane like the 787 is, it is the backbone of sales, and a huge portion of the revenue of many airlines. Their pilots understand their aircraft because those airlines have robust training programs and those pilots are taught to first and foremost, fly the airplane.